| UUA Board Response to Racism at GA 2005 |
Wednesday, July 06 2005 @ 03:38 PM PDT
Contributed by: EDavid
Views: 4543
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 An open letter to UU youth of color and UU people of color who attended Fort Worth General Assembly and the broader UU community:
At General Assembly in Fort Worth, there were several incidents that reminded us that we have much work to do in our journey to becoming an anti-racist, anti-oppressive, and multicultural association. We, the UUA Board of Trustees, want to express deep sadness and regret that these incidents took place.
Some of these incidents involved apparently disrespectful and racist treatment of our youth by Fort Worth officials. We will respond appropriately to these incidents. When we visit a city, we expect that all members of our Unitarian Universalist community should be treated with respect and hospitality. For this and future General Assemblies, our presence might provide a "teachable moment" for us to work with our host cities on issues involving race and youth.
But we have work do within our own community as well. We have been disturbed by reports of other unfortunate incidents during General Assembly within our own Unitarian Universalist family, in which some UU youth of color were made to feel that they were not welcome. There was an incident outside the hall during the closing ceremonies at the Fort Worth General Assembly. Based on the reports of witnesses, the incident involved several UU youth of color, a UU adult who questioned their right to be there, provoking an angry response from the youth, a UU minister who intervened in support of the adult, and another white youth who defended the youth of color and verbally attacked the minister, who responded in like fashion with similar inflammatory language. This was not the only incident. We have also heard that on several occasions in Fort Worth, white UUs assumed that UU youth of color were hotel service people and asked them to carry luggage or park cars. We are troubled that some UUs may have treated other UUs as if they did not belong among us. We can and must do better.
Sadly, this was not the first General Assembly to have incidents like these. After one of those past incidents, the UUA Board of Trustees committed to provide safe space to process issues and concerns around oppression and racism and chaplains who could help facilitate reflection, discussion, and learning. However, we as a Board regret that we have not done enough to provide that safe space. We cannot control the actions of individuals, but we can create venues where we can all learn and grow as a community. We apologize for failing to provide those venues and commit to remedy this at future General Assemblies.
As your UUA Board, we pledge to treat all these incidents as a wake-up call for our entire community. We understand that personal stories about individuals' experiences at Fort Worth General Assembly have been recorded and we commit to hear these stories and learn from them. Also, we will work with the General Assembly Planning Committee and other groups to ensure that General Assembly in St. Louis and all future General Assemblies are more welcoming to all members of our Unitarian Universalist family.
In Faith,
Paul Rickter
UUA Secretary
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| Authored by: JtheKillerBunny On Wednesday, July 06 2005 @ 08:50 PM PDT |
woah, I heard about some shit going down at GA, but I had no idea it was so serious. I'm sorry I wasn't there to witness it cause anyone who knows me, I would have stepped up.
I hope soon we will live in a world/society where things like race/sex/religion/age(to an extent) and what not, are not even considered when one person is looking at another. get what I'm saying?
well anyways, not like I see it happening, I'm just saying.
all the love ~Jus.
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carpe diem[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Jimmy C On Wednesday, July 06 2005 @ 08:58 PM PDT |
That's a very supportive letter from the UUA board.
And I support the board's letter in its effort to be supportive of our UU People of Color and White Allies.
But, would the board have written this open letter if the People of Color and their "white allies" had not resorted to a hysterical breakdown session at GA in response to real racism at GA and around GA in Ft. Worth?
Are hysterical breakdown sobbing and hugging sessions the substance of appropriate protests in youth and young adult circles?
I think not!
I recognize that their pain is real. But, there are innappropriate responses to pain. I would venture that holding a hysterical melt down often falls into this category of being an innappropriate response to pain.
If a UU had been killed at GA for being a PoC, then it would have been highly appropriate for a hysterical sobbing protest. But, not in this case. Someone asked me to carry their baggage, someone asked me if I was a UU, someone got mad when I got mad. So I am going to shut down a dance to keep people from dancing while we cry? NO WAY is that OK.
Is it appropriate that the dance was shut down because People of Color "felt hurt"?
I think not!
It has long been a youth ritual to express the pain of their lives in one situation and cry and THEN go dance. We can do both.
People should have been left with the Choice to attend the dance or not. Remember democracy and all that is a part of UUism. Should we toss our UU values out the window every time the PoC and White Allies feel hurt?
I think not!
So, I think the board felt the political pressure of the "be a good UU" politics and caved in to what was in my mind a hysteria fest when they would not have done so if the same protesters had written a letter to the board of the UUA instead. So was the board response appropriate?
Yes, if you beleive in "covering your own ass" politics.
(I am saying that I beleive the UUA board is just covering its own ass. Sometimes that is appropriate.)
The witch trials at Salem were based on a similar type of hysteria fest by Salem's adolescent girls. It lead to a reaction from the authorities which got way out of hand.
I want to hold the UUA authorities accountable in their response to this hysteria BEFORE it gets out of hand.
I think UUism should not be based on hysteria fests or what the proper response to hysteria fests, even by People of Color, might be. I simply don't believe that being an adolescent Person of Color or an adolecent White Allies means that it is OK to act like a two year old, even in a group.
Young adults have been discrimated against at GA just for being young, back when I was young. But, we didn't hold hysteria fests to protest it. But, then, nothing changed.
What I am against is the idea that this rising tide of People of Color hysteria fests is in any way appropriate as a means of addressing their legitimate concerns of racism at GA or anywhere else.
I really want to emphasize that the concerns of the People of Color youth were legitimate concerns. They were legitimate concerns. But hysteria fests are not legitimate responses to legitimate concerns in most cases.
Shutting down the dance at GA to hold a hysteria fest was not a legitimate act. People should have been allowed the choice whether to go to the dance or not. I don't care about the dance. What I care about is the ability of a group to block the choices of other people if they decide to become hysterical. That whatever is happening must be what the PoC want to happen. That is wrong.
This hysterical fest at GA 2005 matches a previous hysteria fest at Youth Council 2004 and raises red flags that this is now the People of Color's chosen method for redress of greivances. I suspect that many of the same core individuals were involved.
If People of Color deserve elite channels of access in our UU circles, then we should create other channels of access than these hysteria fests.
The fear that rises up in me is the idea that the deeper concerns of the People of Color and all UUs will soon begin to be ignored in the long run if these hysteria fests continue to monopolize the schedules of our cons and Councils.
There is back lash that will develop. (I believe that there already is a silent back lash, but a real lack of respect for the METHODS of the People of Color and especially our White Allies that is already developing whether their issues are legitimate concerns or not.)
The People of Color hysteria fest at Youth Caucus 2004 was not considered to be an appropriate response to concerns at that time. And, I don't see this hysteria fest as being any more appropriate.
What is an appropriate to the systematic racism present in the society and within UU circles? I would hold up Martin Luther King, Jr. as a model. He didn't get together with other People of Color and wimper in huddled masses. He got to work.
I'm disappointed that the UUA board did not hold the People of Color and the White Allies at GA accountable for their OWN innappropriate behavior at GA.
I'm disappointed that the UUA board has not yet offered to create any alternative channel of access to the UUA board for POC concerns for future use.
OK pound on me now,
Jim Sechrest
Disclaimer #1: I acknowledge the growth of hysteria amoung youth in my own district over the last 15 years as a real phenomena during Joys and Concerns at our district cons. But, we have, at times, given the youth the opportunity to attend Joys and Concerns or not and 2/3 of the youth have gotten up and left the worship before Joys and Concerns started, if given the chance. So, hysteria fests are not even considered the best way to do things by most of the youth.
Disclaimer #2: The word "hysteria" is in itself used as a discriminatory word against the behavior of women by a male dominated culture. It is based on the word for a uterus, as in the word "hysterectomy". The word hysteria is in itself a reflection of oppression in our society, and I use it in full knowledge of this fact, for lack of a better word at the moment.
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To be able think for yourself, independently of what others think... that is the greatest of all gifts.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: HaggisInDaEvenin On Wednesday, July 06 2005 @ 11:06 PM PDT |
I heard quite a bit about this during the AR/AO/MC training for newly elected
leaders that we had after GA.
My largest concern is actually this:
at GA in Long Beach, there was an Action of Immediate Witness drawn up that
begged the question "Why are we holding GA in Fort Worth, when we know
about all this racism" along with quite a few other issues.
The AIW never made it to the floor, because some people talked to them and
explained "the reason we go to Fort Worth is BECAUSE of all those reasons, so
we can witness against them." How I wish this had happened.
More so, I wish that our youth staff, our Young Adult staff, our GA Planning
Committee, and others that make GA possible, had all taken the call that was
issued in Long Beach, and PREPARED people ahead of time with information
about the realities of Fort Worth. No, it would not have stopped all of what
happened, or even much of it, but it would have helped.
The local culture needs to be a part of the GA Planning Committee's view, so
specific cultural issues are aware of before we run head on into them
unprepared. I'll promise to make it a part of my outlook as I serve on said
committee.
That's really all I have to say on the matter.
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~Donald Wilson ~ http://www.donaldwilson.info ~ http://www.uuhosting.net
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| Authored by: eMCee On Thursday, July 07 2005 @ 01:00 AM PDT |
I would like to remind those who are interested in responding to posts on this issue that FUUSE is an intentional spiritual community. Thusly, I urge all members to keep in mind that the people and emotions involved are real, and to respect our community. Please, let's keep our discussions open-minded and civil.
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That makes about as much sense as two bald men humping the same pumpkin.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: eMCee On Thursday, July 07 2005 @ 02:52 AM PDT |
I'm not going to pound on you, Jim, but I would like to discuss some of the points you bring up.
First, I'd like to ask exactly what your intentions are in posting some of the things you've said? I have ideas, but I have no wish to transfer my own ideas onto your thoughts. What is it that you want to present to the community?
Second, I want to ask how you think your words are interpreted? It is my personal feeling that some of the things you say come across as rather personal attacks, and they are very hurtful to some members of our community. Do you realize this? Does it mean anything to you that your words hurt people?
To address one point you made:
"I'm disappointed that the UUA board has not yet offered to create any alternative channel of access to the UUA board for POC concerns for future use."
From the UUA letter:
"...we can create venues where we can all learn and grow as a community. We apologize for failing to provide those venues and commit to remedy this at future General Assemblies."
Doesn't that seem to be their intention? I thought that was sort of the point of the meeting that Monday night with Gini Courter, and the letter which they've written now. As I understand it, there are people within the UUA that are having discussions about these things.
Tell me, what is it that you see them as doing that does not offer to create a way to address concerns?
I know I've only just begun... but it's late, and I'm tired.
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That makes about as much sense as two bald men humping the same pumpkin.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: mmmmtino On Thursday, July 07 2005 @ 12:48 PM PDT |
Jim and All-
I urge you to consider the Board letter as an initial response to the many issues of racism at General Assemblty. It was not meant to be a comprehensive plan for the future, but rather some context for what happened and an assurance that systems will be created to deal better with oppression and marginalization in the future.
I also urge everyone to take three steps back, and then four deep breaths. And then to think about what it is like to be marginalized. For some of us, this will be an easy exercise. For others--those of us who are used to mattering wherever we go--it will be harder. For none of us will this be impossible. FYI, I posted a sermon on this topic in the sermons/essays section if you're interested.
What I'm trying to say is that until you have experienced the pain of being continually marginalized in your own faith community, you really need to hold yourself back from prescribing "answers" to the "problems" you see. And you might think twice (or three times, or six) about using derogatory and dismissive language like "hysteria fests" to describe people reacting in emotional ways to continued pain and exclusion. Words like this only serve to further marginalize people of color in our movement (even if you acknowledge the sexism inherent in the language). [And, as an aside, though I'm not an official Ally on FUUSE, I would caution that such language is not in keeping with the FUUSE covenant]
I understand that the Board, as well as the Youth and YA offices, are committed to helping create more healthy ways to deal with the difficult and painful issues of racism and oppression in our community. I also understand that the Board needed to communicate this in broad brush-strokes to the entire UU community.
Some patience and understanding is in order.
in peace,
Michael
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"Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?"
-Scarecrow, The Wizard of Oz[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: goodnighttexas On Thursday, July 07 2005 @ 02:06 PM PDT |
"I also urge everyone to take three steps back, and then four deep breaths."
very good advice.
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hate is baggage. life's too short to be pissed off all the time, it's just not worth it.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Will Tanzman On Thursday, July 07 2005 @ 02:10 PM PDT |
I object strongly to the derogatory use of the term "hysteria." Jim admits that the term has its origins in sexism, but justifies its use because there are no better words - but that's just because it's a sexist concept, not just a sexist term. Expressing emotion is just as valid as expressing rational arguments, and it sounds like the youth of color and white allies did both, though from reading Jim's post you wouldn't realize that. In fact, I think UUs with racist attitudes need to feel some anger from people of color in order to beat it into our heads that our attitudes can seriously hurt others. The rule that an "appropriate" response can only be a polite, rational argument is a rule written by upper-class white male society, and that rule has been used to write off the ideas and expressions of subordinated groups throughout history. We should be thanking the youth of color and allies for having the courage to hold our community accountable rather than quibbling over the precise manner.
It's also funny that Jim mentions Martin Luther King as a better example of how to do "appropriate" responses to racism. One of MLK's arguments (best articulated in "Letter from a Birmingham Jail") was that people who agree with the Civil Rights Movement's demands but spend all their energy complaining about the movement's confrontational methods are hypocrites.
--Will[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ZaRinahfied On Thursday, July 07 2005 @ 03:22 PM PDT |
okay clearly you have lost your mind
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Love is all there is and you know you Love me.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: ZaRinahfied On Thursday, July 07 2005 @ 03:23 PM PDT |
you being jimmy c. how you dared even to say that blows my mind.
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Love is all there is and you know you Love me.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: mulligan On Thursday, July 07 2005 @ 05:14 PM PDT |
Jim, you are destroying this community. You are causing unnecessary pain and hurt, that is not supportive, that is anything but anti-oppressive, and that - in my opinion - does not have a place here, if we want FUUSE to be a truly safe and empowering community of faith. Please, please think about what you are doing to individuals, to this community, to everyone. You have made ME feel extremely unsafe, disgusted, and heartbroken. While surely opening the door to the ever-difficult anti-censorship discussion, I plead of our moderators/admins, allies, and other community members to please think about how these attacks and this language are NOT worth the harm it does to FUUSE or any UU community.
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| Authored by: DJ DC On Thursday, July 07 2005 @ 08:02 PM PDT |
Okay, before another FUUSEr gangs up on Mr. C., I will
refer you back to the comments made by Emcee and
Mr. Tino advising us all to callm down and think about
our level of discourse. As a UU and as a person of
color, Jimmy C.'s comments are offensive and off
putting to say the least, but it seems like the last couple
of comments do not help quell the matter. In fact we
can easily make matters worse. Making this into an
argument about who can say what on FUUSE diverts
us from the reason this letter was written: to respond to
the REAL harm done to People of Color in OUR
COMMUNITY. In fact that was the reason the dance was
cancelled by the staff: we shouldn't enjoy the violin
concert while Rome burns!
I know passions are enflamed and emotions are very
raw, but if anything Mr Jimmy C is provoking an
argument for his own agenda. Please do not fall into
the trap, as it seems he proves the old UU joke:
"why is arguing with a UU like wrestling with a pig?
Becasue halfway thorugh you realize the pig likes it."
So let's take two or six steps back, three or ten deep
breaths and calm down. There's plenty of time to argue
about censorship and appropriateness on FUUSE. We
need to focus on healing the wounds of a community.
---
"I have found Him-- Jesus is in the trunk!"--Bumper Sticker
My FUUSE journal-- "Inane Drivel and Other Niceties"[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Charming On Thursday, July 07 2005 @ 08:17 PM PDT |
I have many thoughts about the earlier post, but I think Michael Tino expressed it best, and as such all I have to say about that is to honor the covenant and each other.
On another minor but I feel important point...it was noted that many people questioned the choice of Fort Worth, TX as being a good place for General Assembly considering the issues around race, class and gender that are ever present there. I would like to point out that those same problems exist everywhere. I find it anger provoking that we constantly divide this country up into the good, the bad, and the worst. I've seen just as detrimental and nasty overt acts of racism, sexism, and classism in the north, east, and west as I have in the south. Yes, I’m a southern born and bred, and in the Immortal words of (well, I’m not sure who said it but regardless) “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it anymore”. (and yes, that was meant to be funny!) In reality I think statements that box up the south only serve to demean the hard work of progressive and open minded southerners, many of whom are UU’s.
I guess all that is to say, can we PLEASE stop compartmentalizing who is less racist, sexist, and classist and realize that the entire culture is all of those things.
*Stepping off the soapbox, you will now be returned to your regularly scheduled programming*
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| Authored by: DJ DC On Thursday, July 07 2005 @ 09:29 PM PDT |
<Yes, I’m a southern born and bred, and in the
Immortal words of (well, I’m not sure who said it but
regardless) “I’m mad as hell and I’m not going to take it
anymore”. >
It's from the movie "Network" written by Paddy
Chayefsky and directed by Sidney Lumet. the quote was
said by the character Howard Beale plyed by the late
Peter Finch. ONE OF MY FAVORITE FILMS!!!!!
---
"I have found Him-- Jesus is in the trunk!"--Bumper Sticker
My FUUSE journal-- "Inane Drivel and Other Niceties"[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: michaeloishere On Thursday, July 07 2005 @ 10:48 PM PDT |
Hi folks,
I'll start off with saying that for those of y'all who don't know me, I'm a White dude. Also, as always, I encourage people to call me on accountability when I step out of line. That said, I'd like to share a personal story and then an observation.
When I was little, I tended to quarrel a lot with my older brother (as brothers usually do). (By the way, I now love my brother very much, so this is in no way a sleight against him). Being older, bigger, and stronger than me, my brother had in many respects a lot of power over me. It didn't take me long though to learn that by engaging in a whole host of annoying or aggravating behaviors I could provoke my brother and get a reaction out of him. Even though he was physically stronger than me, I found that I still could have power over in through my ability to provoke him and produce reactions in him based on my behavior. Many of you folks who also have siblings may well be able to relate to this childhood scenario of competing power dynamics.
Anywho, now for my observation. I've noticed over the past six months or so that I've been a member of this community that there are a few individuals who have discovered they have a remarkable ability to produce reactions in people. There are a few screen names that whenever I see posts by them, I know without even looking that there is going to be a big huge stream of responses. I've also found that these conversations tend to be incredibly repetitive with the same aggravating statements being made and the same outraged responses following.
On the one hand, I think that it is important to challenge racism whenever and wherever we see it. There's value though in being thoughtful about just how we go about that process though. I'm concerned that this community may inadvertently be giving a great deal of power to certain individuals by playing into their game and letting them have the same aggravating, hurtful, offensive and racist conversation again, and again, and again. I wonder if we as a community really want to be giving people power over us in this fashion and whether we're not inadvertently playing right into the hands of people whom we might not want to. I'm wondering if giving this kind of power to people is really the best way that we (at least as White allies) can effectively be accountable in the fight against racism.
I personally don't have a problem with censorship. When I'm facilitating a group and someone keeps saying that same thing again and again and it is preventing the group from moving forward then I tell that person that they're going to need to let other people speak for a while. This is even more the case if those repetitive comments are racist and hurtful. Is this censorship? Yes. Is it wrong? Well, I don't think so. If this community though is determined not to use censorship (which is fine by me if that's the will of the community) then I think we need to look at constructive responses to hurtful comments. Sometimes having people speak out against the hurtful comments is constructive, but when that just seems to give the people making the hurtful comments the reaction they want to see, I wonder if just ignoring them and perhaps not even reading their posts in the first place (that way we won't need to worry about being hurt or offended by them) might not be a more constructive response. It’s pretty much impossible in real life to ignore hurtful comments when they’re said out loud and we hear them (and thus I wouldn’t advocate ignoring racist comments in other settings), but perhaps this internet venue allows us some possibilities that other setting do not.
Just some thoughts, and as I mentioned earlier, if I'm out of line, I encourage people to call me on it.
-Michael Ohlrogge
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| Authored by: djones42 On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 12:14 AM PDT |
Hi all. I want to respond to the Letter from the UUA BOT… I am an adult Ally of UU Youth, UU Young Adults and Campus Ministry. Please see my bio for more…
I attended GA and was looking forward to the dance Monday night. I attended Con Con last year and was looking forward to sharing a good time with the many youth and allies I have had the pleasure of meeting and those I had not yet met.
A quote from the letter…
“At General Assembly in Fort Worth, there were several incidents that reminded us that we have much work to do in our journey to becoming an anti-racist, anti-oppressive, and multicultural association.”
Is our association racist and oppressive or do we have some members that are not living up to the ideals we share as an anti-racist, anti-oppressive, and multicultural association? I for one feel that as an association, we are clearly agreed upon the need to be anti-racist and anti-oppressive within our association and to be activist to work toward the elimination of racism and oppression locally, nationally and globally.
Within an association of our size, we are bound to have instances of intuitional racism, individuals that inadvertently commit racist acts and unfortunately some racist individuals. As a community, we need to identify these instances of racism and through love, education and advocacy work to eliminate them. I personally believed the above quote inadvertently implies that the UUA, as a whole, can be viewed as a racist and oppressive entity because we still, and always will, have more AR/AO work to do. We are more than the sum of our parts.
Another quote…
“…some UU youth of color were made to feel that they were not welcome. There was an incident outside the hall during the closing ceremonies at the Fort Worth General Assembly. Based on the reports of witnesses, the incident involved several UU youth of color, a UU adult who questioned their right to be there, provoking an angry response from the youth…”
Why where “some UU youth of color” not seen as part of our community? Did they have on their GA nametags? The GA closing ceremony and the area outside the hall was not open to the public. People present should have been either employees of the hall or registered attendees of GA.
Page 3 of the GA 2005 Program states:
“GA registration and name badges are required for admission to GA events except for the Service of the Living Tradition and the Sunday Morning Worship Service.”
In my opinion, it is perfectly appropriate for people not wearing IDs to be asked to show their ID and hence demonstrate their right to be there.
As a GA community, we attempt to make our community safe by having rules for youth that hopefully help keep us all safe. The most basic of these is that youth must be registered. As registered attendees of GA, they should either wear their nametags or, without anger, show them when ask. The response of anger by the UU youth of color appears to have escalated the confrontational situation. It is also quite possible that the adult did not make the request with proper respect for the Youth. Unfortunately, many UU adults treat Youth like children.
From my perspective, a safe place for those interested in processing their feelings about the incidents should have been provided concurrently with the dance. Youth leadership, adult allies and Chaplains were there to support this. We need to care for all our community members.
Quite honestly, I feel that canceling the dance was unfair to the many youth and adults that were not involved in the incidents and that were looking forward to the dance. Those who would have choosen to attend the dance, in my opinion, would have had one more amazing experience at GA. Instead, they left disappointed.
GA 2005 was great. I can’t wait till St. Louis!
Yours in faith,
Doug Jones
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| Authored by: michaeloishere On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 12:41 AM PDT |
I'm White, and though I entered and walked around in the convention center numerous times without a name tag, no one ever questioned my presence or right to be there. If the rule were universally applied, it wouldn't be a problem. If, as it played out, the rule got applied only to People of Color, that's a BIG problem.
-Michael Ohlrogge[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: DJ DC On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 01:30 AM PDT |
Thank you Michael for answering that last portion. One less comment I need to make... standing silent and knocking.
Doug, good questions. In response to the last portion of your note, I hope to also answer the first portion of your note (all to the tune of "Flight of the Bumblebee). While there was indeed a forum for the People of Color and White Allies to process the events, I think the important point to notice in your statement is:
"Quite honestly, I feel that canceling the dance was
unfair to the many youth and adults that were not
involved in the incidents and that were looking forward
to the dance. Those who would have choosen to attend
the dance, in my opinion, would have had one more
amazing experience at GA."
The important part to focus on is "Those who would have chosen." People of Color CANNOT CHOOSE TO NOT deal with racism and its effects on them. We're constantly surrounded by it and effected by it, while White people have the luxury to choose when and where and how to deal with racism-- sometimes if at all. So if given the choice to deal with what happened at GA, many White people would and some wouldn't; meanwhile the People of Color would have no choice but to have it affect their experience. And the proof of this is actually coming out on these messgae boards. The main question from White people is "why couldn't we have the dance?"; the main questions from People of Color is "why did these events happen to us?", "Why don't people understand that what happened was racist?" and in general having to justify our pain.
And this brings me to the first portion of the note. The fact is yes we do experience racism all the time, and we should see UUism and UU congragations as a haven from the every day racism that we experience. I say should because often we don't get that. Yes our principles call us to be welcoming and equal in our treatment of others and calls us to fight racism, but when that doesn't happen it hurts. And I think the pain is even more painful because we experience it in a place that is supposed to be a spiritual home by people who should know better. It's really a betrayal of People of Color in some way.
yes the association is "agreed upon the need to be anti-racist and anti-oppressive," but how do we live that out and take accountability when it is not. The GA staff, presented with what had happened, made the hard decision to cancel the dance rather than have one segment of the UUA population ignored, thus being accountable for its actions. Even though these were individuals who caused the problems, it happened under our roof in our house, and we need to deal with it as a whole. Granted a lot of this happened quickly and may have been better communicated to everyone. But I'd like to say-- as a reminder to all-- that it is REALLY easy to be a Monday Morning Quarterback. This was a hard decision and I don't think we should fault the staff for trying to be even handed in a tough situation given the information they had at the time.
thanks for listening.
David
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"Come the rapture can I have your car?"--Bumper Sticker
My FUUSE journal-- "Inane Drivel and Other Niceties"[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: DJ DC On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 01:37 AM PDT |
Actually to clarify a point I made in my last post: I said "it's a betrayal of People of Color." I actaully meant to say that we as People of Color FEEL betrayed because this is happening a place that we thought was safe. While some would argue that yes it is a betrayal, I was concerned with trying to define the feeling amongst people of color, myself included.
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"Come the rapture can I have your car?"--Bumper Sticker
My FUUSE journal-- "Inane Drivel and Other Niceties"[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: csext On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 09:29 AM PDT |
it's true for me as well. i'm a 25 y/o white woman and generally i'm pretty good about wearing my nametag at GA, but for the last day and a half i did not. i entered the closing ceremony a few minutes late, not wearing a nametag, and all i got was an order of service.
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smooches,
claire[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Romantic Leper On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 11:50 AM PDT |
The other night when I heard about this, I said "I wish I could say I was surprized vy this." Apperently the UUA was a very racist organization. I'm not surprized that some people are semi-racist in the UUA still. But this also could of been a generation gap. Possibly the older person accusing the youth assumed that they were causing trouble. No matter what, it wasn't right.
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Why, must we, kill all of mankind? - System of a Down, Boom[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Chalicechick On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 12:32 PM PDT |
A few questions:
1. What, other than the color of the skin of the people who got yelled at, has us thinking that it was all about race?
I don't know about you, but I got yelled at several times as a teenager when I wasn't doing anything especially wrong and having someone assume I'm a store employee when I'm not still happens from time-to-time.
2. What happened in the greater Ft. Worth area? The letter only really goes into what happened with the UUs, which frankly, sounds like the sort of stuff that happens to young people all the time.
CC[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: stevecaldwell On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 02:33 PM PDT |
By Monday night, there were several registered GA attendees and delegates who were not wearing their nametags (my partner and my daughter both come to mind as two examples).
Their participation in GA programming went unchallenged even without their nametags being worn.
I would suggest that the GA requirement to show one's nametag was being inconsistently enforced. This inconsistent and perhaps selective enforcement may be due to racism and/or ageism.
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| Authored by: Chalicechick On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 04:16 PM PDT |
Nametags?
So people attending were supposed to be wearing nametags. These kids weren't.
People attending were supposed to be in the ceremony.
These kids weren't.
Yet when someone assumes that some kids not wearing nametags and not in the ceremony aren't part of the event, it has to be about race and couldn't possibly be about them behaving like people who weren't part of the event.
CC[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: BartFrost On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 04:51 PM PDT |
| First, one of the youth WAS wearing a nametag. Second, there actions were not that of misbehaving or anything like that, they entered to go back to the PoC ID groups...which were still going on. [ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: djones42 On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 07:05 PM PDT |
GA was full of choices. Be a delegate or not. Attend Plenary or not. Speak Pro or Con or not. Vote. Participate in the Youth or Young Adult caucuses or not.
There were 280 workshops presented in 15 time slots with 4 overlapping Plenary and 9 overlapping the Exhibit Hall. Attend the anti-death-penalty rally or not. The number of worthwhile activities seemed almost endless.
Each of the nearly 3000 attendees had the OPPORTUNITY to make many choices. I read the Program and Agenda before arriving and selected a primary and alternate for each time slot before I arrived. I encouraged others from my church to attend and for the first time in memory, we had all 6 of our delegate positions filled. To some extent, we intentionally chose to not attend the same workshops and to share notes upon our return home.
I had a very full GA. In my planning, Monday night’s dance was 1 of 2 Youth focused events I made a point of including in my schedule. The other was the Hearing on Ministry with and for Youth.
DJ DC, you said, “People of Color CANNOT CHOOSE TO NOT deal with racism and its effects on them.” I agree. However they can choose HOW they deal with it. They can choose how they work with Allies. They can choose how their personal priorities impact the overall health of the communities they are a part of. They can choose when to request leadership to declare a community wide emergency. Community wide emergencies are big deals. They reprioritize every ones time. This was not a Youth Con with 100 to 300 people who are generally a very tight community. It was GA, the dance was one of the major opportunities at GA for Youth and the larger UU community to come together.
For those involved, this was an emergency and emergency support and care was provided. In my opinion, these events were not GA community emergencies. They were examples of why a systematic, well planned and well executed AR/AO campaign is needed through out our congregations, districts and the UUA.
DJ DC, you also said: “So if given the choice to deal with what happened at GA, many White people would and some wouldn't; meanwhile the People of Color would have no choice but to have it affect their experience.”
I agree. I am dealing with what happened at GA, now. Canceling the dance resulted in my leaving GA. It did not force me to start processing the GA AR/AO incidents right then. Mentally drained, with few facts and lots of emotion, I don’t feel that if I had tried to deal with it right then, on an emergency basis, it would have been productive.
I had “worked” my limit and needed to play. In a community the size of GA, everyone doing the same thing together is rare. Doing it as a community wide emergency should be very, very rare. In my opinion, the dance and the AR/AO processing could have been done concurrently.
Michaeloishere and Claire… We should enforce our community rules evenly… Michael, it sounds like your roaming around without a nametag was in a much more crowded part of GA and it may have been when the exhibits were open and they were open to the public. Claire, you were entering the “one’ event going on at the time.
Chalicechick… I am standing and silently knocking to both your posts…
Bart… you said: “ First, one of the youth WAS wearing a nametag. Second, there actions were not that of misbehaving or anything like that, they entered to go back to the PoC ID groups...which were still going on.”
Thanks for the facts… So they were entering a building not open to the public, during the middle of the Closing Ceremony, the only event shown on the GA Program for that time period, heading in a direction away from the Closing Ceremony… to attend an event only known to the Youth community, when asked to show ID… Of the “group” (size unknown) only one was wearing a nametag, then presumably, the others were not wearing nametags… Thanks again Bart.
I hope we learn from this. Pulling fire alarms is a big deal. Was there a fire? Could 100 to 300 people have enjoyed a dance together and not got burnt?
Keep the faith,
Doug Jones
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| Authored by: BartFrost On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 08:20 PM PDT |
Look, straight up...if cancelling the dance resulted in you leaving GA, good. I dealt with tons of adults JUST LIKE YOU who think that their having fun is worth more than the youth actually RESPECTING our community. The dance wasn't even SPECIFICALLY FOR ADULTS! It was the youth dance, like it's always been. The intergenerational one was the "Prom you never had". IT WASN'T YOUR DANCE TO GET MAD ABOUT! IF YOU ARE AN ADULT THEN GET OVER THE DANCE! The youth caucus staff had a discussion about the dance and we all reached concensus on that it wasn't going to happen.
Truly tho, you "real" adults (not YAs) need to stop thinking that youth programming is there to make you happy and for you to feel safe. Ya'll complain when we push your comfort zone, and ya'll are the only ones who complain. Ya'll complain about the dance being cancelled, when the youth sat down and had a discussion about it...and then stayed until 4 am in the hotel lobby discussing too. If you aren't happy with how the youth handle OUR EVENTS, then you don't HAVE to go.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Charming On Friday, July 08 2005 @ 08:35 PM PDT |
I think this would be a good time to just put a reminder out there about the covanant that this community works within.
...embrace the FUUSE community and the diversity of people and opinions that make it up;
...discuss issues in a supportive, non-judgmental, and constructive way;
...voice opinions in a manner that respects differing opinions;
...seek out the support we need from the appropriate sources;
...strive to make FUUSE a safe and welcoming place;
...be willing to listen.
Also please remember that there are allies within the community to listen and process the hurt and confusion that surrounds many of these issues.
In hope,
Amanda[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: DJ DC On Saturday, July 09 2005 @ 02:12 AM PDT |
Thanks Amanda for the forethought. And in keeping with that I took the time to calm down before writing this.
I’m a little disturbed by the discussion because it seems people are trying to find loopholes to calling what happened a racist incident. Maybe the key is to frame this discussion a little as well as give a little bit of a power analysis.
Here are some questions to think about:
Why are we complaining about NOT being able to enjoy ourselves while people are hurt? Better yet, which of the 7 principles does it violate to want to choose to not care about the suffering of others?
Why is what happened to the youth of color not a community emergency, but, as implied, only a false alarm?
Why do the youth of color have to bear the burden to prove the incident was racist while the white people involved don’t have to do anything to be defended as doing the right thing under the circumstances? (the name tag portion was answered best by stevecaldwell as well as pointing out the power dynamics on how it is applied amongst the races).
Why are the youth of color taking the brunt of the accusations for the last night GA dance being cancelled, when in fact it was the GA STAFF that cancelled the dance?
Why are the youth of color at fault for causing this pain to the community when they were the victims of the attack? (and yes attack is the right word because at one point, a white person had to be physically restrained from attacking a UU youth of color. Nametag or not it was wrong.)
Why, when not ALL the facts are in yet (lots of facts haven’t been revealed to protect all parties currently), are we so quick to find a way to defend the white people and blame the youth of color?
Why are we under the false impression that even we are a super-majority white, upper-middle class, denomination with these great principles, that we can’t be racist and/or capable of racist behavior?
We are not immune from it. The principles mean nothing unless we live them. The GA staff tried to live them out. Yes the communication by the GA staff was bad, and they could have communicated the news better, and that was THEIR fault. Yet how this blows over is that people are hurt and instead of putting the blame where it might reasonably belong, people blame the youth of color—the victims of the night. This is part of the power dynamics in racism. The victims become the easy scapegoat, sacrificed to maintain the institutional power. The STAFF went against the trend and decided to do something to recognize that this WAS a community emergency. The GA STAFF—and I will say it again so we realize who did what—cancelled the dance in recognition that this was an emergency FOR the community not in spite of it. Also remember this was a Youth dance in name only; the GA STAFF handles this affair in coordination with the youth office. Granted the communication of the decision was handled badly, but they had a tough decision. Maybe we should recognize that the staff acted in a way to live up to our principles. You don’t have to agree with it or like it—also part of our principles—but at LEAST put the blame where it belongs.
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"Come the rapture can I have your car?"--Bumper Sticker
My FUUSE journal-- "Inane Drivel and Other Niceties"[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: dodgermask On Saturday, July 09 2005 @ 04:03 AM PDT |
I have done my best to stay out of this conversation. Every time I attend GA I find myself wanting to quit being a UU and everytime I'm involved in the AO/AR work I find that feeling magnified. I am Bi-Racial, this means that I identify as both white and as a POC sometimes I have a Identity put on me by others, other time it is mine to define. I have light skin most of the time other times I look like more like my dad who is from India. It has been my experience that there is no place thus far in the UUA for people of my situation, all raced based groups are uncomfortable for me. I give all this because it's important for you to know where I am coming from. I would also like to point out that I do not at this moment know where my GA scedual is so if I get some logistical stuff mixed up, please NICELY let me know as I'm running off memory.
I would like to first off state how disgusted I am that this has become a yelling match of who's defending who, where the bias' and prejuduce are, among other things, Lets have a discussion, they're so much more productive. Yes many of us are emotionally invested but that is no excuse.
From my understanding though alot of things did happen at GA I have heard that alot of the issues that were discussed occured at the DRUUMM LDC in Dallas the week before, I attended this conference. While alot of things that were not right happend there, these issues were not part of the GA community and should've been left out, we did alot of processing at this event.
Bart, I beleave that the dance was scedualed as the evenings entertainment for all of GA and it was listed as an intergenerational dance, as was the prom one. Adults do have a right to be frustrated at not having the dance. If any event that happend to be open to all people was cancelled, people again have the right to be upset. Was it more important that people process these events, that is of their own personal value system to decide, not for us to push our own on someone else. The choice to cancel the event was the youth's yes, that was the youths choice to do, adults should accept that.
Before we act like all the drama is on one side, lets acknowledge a few things, the working definition of racism, is power + prejuiduce (I can't spell) both groups white and POC have prejuiduce (still can't spell) and this creates alot of problems.
The communication between the two groups of people are horrible there is no dialogue, just angry arugements or nothing at all. you can have your pick as to which is worse.
Education is an easy way to solve problems where ignorance is an issue No communication means no education ya dig?
I unfortintly have forgotten alot of what else I had to say, but i encourage you to ask me in a PM.
I also respectfully ask that for the rest of the conversation (which I'm sure will be a long and tedius one) ask people to explain their ideas and why they thing something is justifyed or not. We all have good intentions here, just make sure why something is not acceptable known and discuss how to avoid it in the future.
I appreciate you all listening to what I have had to say. Again, sorry that this was so disoriented but it's three in the morning.
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YARRRRR I'm a Pirate![ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Chalicechick On Saturday, July 09 2005 @ 07:09 AM PDT |
1. I think there's a difference between one person not wearing a nametag and
a large group of people not wearing nametags except for one person. Again,
they weren't in the ceremony. Whether they were on the way there or not,
and even some people who are defending them are claiming they weren't,
they were not acting like people who were attending.
2. I think the burden of proof is on the people who want to say it's about race
because a minister's career, or at least his/her professional respect, may be
on the line. A charge of "racism" isn't something to fuck around with and
even ministers are innocent until proven guilty. Losing one's temper is one
thing, being a racist, even an unintentional racist, is something much worse.
These kids will not be punished. This minister still might be.
Again, innocent until proven guilty. No one has given a reason why someone
who sees kids who are, except for one of them, not wearing the tags
attendees are wearing and not where attendees are supposed to be and
assumes they might not be attendees is malicious. Heck, I'm not even sure
it's UNREASONABLE.
3. Nobody here is growing up in a vaccuum. The lessons people learn from
UUism will be applied to the world,. Kids get yelled at. Sometimes unfairly.
That, my friends, is life. Life is not fair.
If we grow up believing that race is the root of the issue every time we are cut
off in traffic, every time the dentist says it won't hurt and it does, every we
they get shortchanged at McDonalds, has UUism really done us any favors?
4. For another example, I'd advise no one to ever try saying "Lots of other
cars were speeding and you didn't pull THEM over!" to a traffic cop. Not
wearing your nametag was against the rules. That other people were doing it
doesn't make it less so.
5. Part of my ire on this comes from my day job. I am an event planner. And
I'm sorry when nametags mess with your fashion sense, they are often
CRUCIAL to event logistics and assuming that you should be able to just
break the rules and not wear yours whenever you feel like it just causes more
work for the people who are trying to put an event on for you. I'm glad your
family got away with it Steve, I'm glad you got away with it Claire. Please
don't do it again. It's highly inconsiderate to people who are working their
butts off.
CC[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: stevecaldwell On Saturday, July 09 2005 @ 01:51 PM PDT |
CC ... if a group of UU youth of color were entering the GA event space and some or even most of them had forgotten their name tags, what harm is going to happen if we show some trust and radical hospitality? Remember that this group of youth were with at least one youth who was registered and wearing his/her nametag.
The UUA and the UUA Youth Office don't establish any mandatory requirement to attend an event like the Closing Ceremony at GA. If any requirement is established, it's a detail left to the youth and the adult sponsor for the youth at GA. So there is no "mandatory attendance" requirement for youth or adults for the Closing Ceremony.
Ask yourself what would have happened if a 45-50 year old white male showed up attired in a polo and slacks without a nametag? Do you think a UU adult or UU minister would have challenged him or do you think they would have assumed "good will" and assumed that this person forgot his nametag?
I don't really care about the names of the individual minister or the individual adult who challenged the youth of color at GA. While there may be some individual respect issues that need to be addressed, I think the problem in our church culture is one of systemic racism and systemic ageism.
"Burden of proof" isn't an issue here ... the underlying values and assumptions that got us to this incident are the issue here. One example of the cultural assumptions we are dealing with is "Kids get yelled at. Sometimes unfairly."
Think about that ... a youth in a UU congregation accidentally breaks something and the all to common response is to yell at the youth. One of the bits of wisdom that I picked up at UU Youth Advisor Training was "the souls of the youth are more important than the furniture."
It's reasonable to expect a youth or his/her parental figures to make good on replacing anything that is broken, but it's never appropriate to hurl verbal violence towards a youth. But we have a cultural assumption being voiced here that it's customary to yell at youth. Perhaps we should ask ourselves ... would we yell at an adult for the same mistake?
And if the answer to that question is "no," then why would we ever think it's OK to yell at a youth?
Given the omnipresensce of racism in North America, how can anyone of us avoid the influence of the culture we are living in? Racism is like smog in the air ... no matter how good my intentions are, I've got some of it inside me.
Even with my best intentions, I may accidentally hurt others. Given what I've learned about racism from UU curricula and UU books, I don't think that anyone who is white cannot help being racist. The question is what do we do with this assessment to improve our UU communities and the world at large?
Well ... in the American South, it's very common to see people of color pulled over because of race and the fact that the detaining law enforcement person is treating them with greater scruitiny. The slang term for this is "driving while black" ... another more formal term for this is "racial profiling" ... enforcement of the law depends on the conscious or unconscious racial attitudes of the person doing the enforcement.
I don't know why my daughter wasn't wearing her nametag, but my partner had lost hers by Monday afternoon. It wasn't a "fashion statement" but rather a lost nametag.
Personally, I think that wearing nametags is a good habit. In congregations and other settings, a nametag makes it easier for both newcomers and long-term members to learn names and mentally link names with faces. This puts people at ease and lowers social anxiety.
A congregation where congregants don't want to wear nametags is a congregation that doesn't want to grow and doesn't want to welcome newcomers.
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| Authored by: CopperQueen On Saturday, July 09 2005 @ 04:07 PM PDT |
I read your blog and your comments here and it seems you are making the
assumption that these youth must have been "misbehaving" when they were
approached to take people's bags to their rooms and when they were asked
for their nametags. I was at GA last year and saw MANY people walking
around without nametags or nametags half hidden under shirts, yet I was
always asked/checked for my nametag - even though I was always wearing it
in a very visible fashion. I didn't assume race had anything to do with it - in
fact, I didn't even realize it until now!
But I am also a person who "saves" racism as a last resort - I will think
everything else had to be a reason first.
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Cada hoja soñaba un sueño diferente.
-Lorca
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| Authored by: CopperQueen On Saturday, July 09 2005 @ 04:11 PM PDT |
Let me just point out that DWB doesn't just happen in the South. When we were
living in a suburb of Portland, Oregon (a presumed bastion of progressiveness)
my brother (15 or 16 at the time) was stopped eight times in one school year for
WALKING through the school yard to our house (which was across the street
from the school) after practices. He was always asked, "What are you doing
here?" "Where do you live?" "What's your name?" "Do you know so-and-so? We're
looking for him."
I have never lived in the south, yet I have witnessed a lot of racism.
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Cada hoja soñaba un sueño diferente.
-Lorca
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| Authored by: CopperQueen On Saturday, July 09 2005 @ 04:27 PM PDT |
Reading this post just made me feel kind of depressed. Bear in mind that I am
a person who rarely gets angry; it would probably be healthier for me to just
angry sometimes.
What makes me sad about your posting: the fact that you really don't know
what happened, don't understand what happened, don't understand the
perspective of the people who felt hurt by it - and yet you feel authorized or
entitled to dismiss them anyway. But maybe I am wrong. Maybe you know and
understand more than you've conveyed, so I want to clarify:
1. I think there's a difference between one person not wearing a nametag and
a large group of people not wearing nametags except for one person. Again,
they weren't in the ceremony. Whether they were on the way there or not,
and even some people who are defending them are claiming they weren't,
they were not acting like people who were attending.
-How was it that they were acting? Were they cutting up? Laughing loudy?
2. I think the burden of proof is on the people who want to say it's about race
because a minister's career, or at least his/her professional respect, may be
on the line. A charge of "racism" isn't something to fuck around with and
even ministers are innocent until proven guilty. Losing one's temper is one
thing, being a racist, even an unintentional racist, is something much worse.
-Do we have any evidence that the minister's career is on the line? I've known
of ministers doing much worse than this and their careers are just fine. I've
noticed, too, that a lot of white people are scared to death of being "charged"
with racism. As if someone is going to lock them up for being racist.
Interesting perception that in the United States we have a history of not even
locking up racists when they've lynched black people. I'm not sure where this
white fear comes from, quite frankly.
These kids will not be punished. This minister still might be.
-What should the kids be punished for? And by whom?
Again, innocent until proven guilty. No one has given a reason why someone
who sees kids who are, except for one of them, not wearing the tags
attendees are wearing and not where attendees are supposed to be and
assumes they might not be attendees is malicious. Heck, I'm not even sure
it's UNREASONABLE.
-No one is on trial - we are looking at the culture of a place. Do you think
that people go to GA - especially people who are not white, adults, middle
class or higher background, in the ministry, newcomers to the faith - do you
think that these people come mostly because of what the rules are? Or is it
how they are made to feel? It's the same at local congregations. Do you think
people choose a church based primarily on its written bylaws or the way they
are welcomed when they walk in the door? I don't think you are being realistic
here. It's not unreasonable to ask for nametags. But I'm not sure why you
don't understand that if some people are allowed in without being asked for
tags, that there's probably an issue of only people of color are being asked.
You brought up the speeding example: if I am driving on a freeway that says
55 and everyone around me is driving 65 or better - why should I be stopped
by the cops for driving 62? Do you see an issue there? The selective
application of the law based on race or perceived race - is racism.
3. Nobody here is growing up in a vaccuum. The lessons people learn from
UUism will be applied to the world,. Kids get yelled at. Sometimes unfairly.
That, my friends, is life. Life is not fair.
If we grow up believing that race is the root of the issue every time we are cut
off in traffic, every time the dentist says it won't hurt and it does, every we
they get shortchanged at McDonalds, has UUism really done us any favors?
-I agree that life isn't fair or hunky dory. But you really sound like a
conservative here. Maybe you are; I don't mean that as an insult. If someone -
especially a minister - yelled at me, I would be pissed. As an adolescent, I
was never yelled at by any adults other than my parents and grandmother. I
don't think that I have ANY RIGHT as an adult to yell at any adolescents. I
could see yelling at a small child who is about to do something dangerous or
who is really acting up, but yelling at 13, 15, 16 year olds? This is not part of
my culture and I don't think it's an "acceptable" part of life.
4. For another example, I'd advise no one to ever try saying "Lots of other
cars were speeding and you didn't pull THEM over!" to a traffic cop. Not
wearing your nametag was against the rules. That other people were doing it
doesn't make it less so.
-See above.
5. Part of my ire on this comes from my day job. I am an event planner. And
I'm sorry when nametags mess with your fashion sense, they are often
CRUCIAL to event logistics and assuming that you should be able to just
break the rules and not wear yours whenever you feel like it just causes more
work for the people who are trying to put an event on for you. I'm glad your
family got away with it Steve, I'm glad you got away with it Claire. Please
don't do it again. It's highly inconsiderate to people who are working their
butts off.
-You seem to really be focusing on the nametag issue. But that's not the
issue.
CC
---
Cada hoja soñaba un sueño diferente.
-Lorca
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| Authored by: Chalicechick On Saturday, July 09 2005 @ 09:24 PM PDT |
(Steve says "
Ask yourself what would have happened if a 45-50 year old white male
showed up attired in a polo and slacks without a nametag? Do you think a UU
adult or UU minister would have challenged him or do you think they would
have assumed "good will" and assumed that this person forgot his nametag?")
Dude, you forget. I do this for a living for political parties. I've done events
for both parties and I can assure you that even at Republican events, I have
asked white middle aged people who weren't wearing their nametags if they
were part of the event. All the time. It's a pain, but when you're running a
large event, these logistics are crucial.
I know you're on a soapbox, but I'm doubting that even you think the UUs are
more racist than the Repoublicans.
Copper
((How was it that they were acting? Were they cutting up? Laughing loudy? ))
They were not wearing tags.
According to some posts here, they were trying to enter a building where
there wasn't anything official for GA going on. According to others, they were
walking away from the ceremony. Either way, they weren't participating in the
ceremony.
(((Do we have any evidence that the minister's career is on the line?)))
By the time we do, it will be too late. But if you don't think nasty rumors can
sink a minister's career, you haven't been paying attention.
((( I've known
of ministers doing much worse than this and their careers are just fine. )))
But were they called out in front of the entire denomination?
(((I've
noticed, too, that a lot of white people are scared to death of being "charged"
with racism. As if someone is going to lock them up for being racist. )))
Yeah, because UU churches are crawling all over themselves to hire ministers
who are "known racists." And getting a UU minister job is so easy in the first
place.
And for what it's worth, Steve has charged me with racism on his blog simply
because I disagree with him and want to see evidence of a racial motive
before I give this woman a label that her peers will see for the rest of her life.
Yeah, I've been charged with racism just today (and for the first time in my
life, incidentally.) I got over it.
((( Interesting perception that in the United States we have a history of not
even
locking up racists when they've lynched black people. I'm not sure where this
white fear comes from, quite frankly.)))
Because they are working for a the ultraliberal, ultratiny UU church.. I work in
politics. Politics is big. Unless I'm famous for being a racist, I can always get
a job someplace else.
This is UUism. It is small and it is gossipy.
Honestly, would you vote to hire this woman, now that everyone has decided
without evidence that she's a racist?
((What should the kids be punished for? And by whom? ))
They shouldn't. But the minister shouldn't be punished either, even in the
court of public opinion, without evidence that she is a racist.
((No one is on trial)))
Right., You've already convicted the minister of being a racist, and again,
Steve has called me a racist on his blog for saying that there are two sides to
every story.
(That's how you search for truth, you know, ignore the facts and call anyone
who doesn't agree with you an inflammatory name.)
No one's on trial, because no one here thinks a trial is necessary. you've all
made up your minds.
(((do you
think that these people come mostly because of what the rules are?)))
Do you think that conventions can run without rules? If we got rid of the
nametags and registration and said that anyone could attend anything,
whether they paid the $300 or not, do you think that GA could pay for itself?
If not, how should we pay for it?
I'd like GA to be free, hell, I'd like a house in the Hamptons. But neither is
gonna happen.
If you're driving 62 in a 55, you have no bitching rights. Get pulled for an
imaginary infraction, and I know that happens, you have my support. But I'm
sorry, "everyone else breaks the law, so I can too and I shouldn't be punished"
is a ridiculous attitude and if your mom didn't break you of the habit of
saying "Why can't I swipe candy from the store? Bobby does it and HIS mom
doesn't make him take it back…" at age five, she should have.
So far, the only evidence we have that white people weren't asked for tags is
anecdotal. Everyone here takes it as gospel, but I thought I'd point that out.
Again, I have said that losing your temper is not acceptable. But it also isn't
inherently racism.
I am focusing on the nametag issue because I am an event planner and I
know what a pain-in-the-butt people who are as self-righteous about
nametags can be. I know how much work they caused the volunteers and I'm
sure the volunteers were only doing their best.
You think you can do better? Volunteer to be a nametag checker next year.
CC
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| Authored by: CopperQueen On Saturday, July 09 2005 @ 10:27 PM PDT |
Three things come to mind in response to your posting. I would like to
reiterate that I am not angry - at anyone. These are just my (not angry)
thoughts.
1. I don't believe I've called anyone here a racist or at GA a racist. It is not a
"label" that I use lightly. I even believe a person can commit racist acts
without calling them a racist. But if you find that I referred to you or the
minister (whose identity I honestly never thought about until you mentioned
it) as racist, please let me know.
2. I am stunned at your dismissal of the inequity of selective application of
the law. I had a co-worker (and good friend) once laugh to me about how
when she speeds down her suburban streets it cracks her up to see the cops
pulling over all the Mexicans for driving slower than she is. Even though she
laughed, she did recognize that she was not held accountable because she
was white. Is the problem speeding? Or is the problem that mexican people
shouldn't be speeding? That is the attitude we are looking at. The cops are
right to pull over the speeders. But the cops are wrong for letting the white
speeders continue to drive faster than the law allows.
3. I've noticed that when many people become defensive about someone they
don't know it is because of their own fear of being that person. That is true
for me, too. No one wants bad things to happen to them. This is why some
people of color are concerned about what happened at GA to the youth of
color. Maybe this is why some white folks are upset about a white person
being "labeled" as a racist at GA. For my part, I hope everyone involved is
healing - I do not know the minister involved nor do I know all of the other
people over the weekend who apparently made the youth of color feel like
shit. I can't say that they're racist people. But we have two choices: ignore it -
dismiss it - infantalize the people who feel victimized; OR address it, learn
from it, and try to figure out how to do better next time.
Maybe we could be a little less concerned about one person's career (which
we don't even know to be in jeopardy) and a lot more concerned about how to
keep this from happening again in the future.
---
Cada hoja soñaba un sueño diferente.
-Lorca
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| Authored by: djones42 On Saturday, July 09 2005 @ 10:38 PM PDT |
In the spirit of trying to focus my comments as part of a constructive conversation, below are several statements that I believe to be true. I would like to hear others comments:
1. People of Color in America do experience racism all the time. POC would like to see UUism and UU congregations as a haven from the every day racism that POCs experience. When that doesn't happen it hurts. People of Color FEEL betrayed because this is happening in a place that POCs thought was safe. (Paraphrased from DJ DC)+(Michael Tino made a similar statement)
2. People of Color CANNOT CHOOSE TO NOT deal with racism and its effects on them. (quote from DJ DC)
3. As the UUA of Congregations, we are clearly agreed upon the need to be anti-racist and anti-oppressive within our association and to be activist working toward the elimination of racism and oppression locally, nationally and globally.
4. Within an association of our size, we are bound to have instances of intuitional racism, individuals that inadvertently commit racist acts and unfortunately some racist individuals. As a community, we need to identify these instances of racism and through intentional communication, love, education and advocacy work to eliminate them.
5. A systematic, inclusive, loving, well-planned and well-executed AR/AO campaign is needed through out our congregations, districts and the UUA. (My experience with current UUA AR/AO initiatives is limited. At Con Con 2004 I was exposed to part of the current AR/AO work. At CMwD Cons I have experienced more. What I heard at GA, from Bill Sinkford and others during Plenary was encouraging. It seems to be well underway.)
6. As a GA community, we attempt to make our community safe by having rules for youth that hopefully help keep us all safe. The most basic of these is that youth must be registered. As registered attendees of GA, Youth should either wear their nametags or, without anger, show them when ask. All adults should model this behavior and wear their nametags. As a community, we should make this a norm that all monitor.
7. People of Color can choose how they deal with racism and its effects on them.
8. POCs can choose how they work with Allies. This includes working with the UUA community that is an ally.
9. Allies can choose how they support POCs in this ongoing struggle.
10. It is OK for AR/AO to be some people’s primary issue. It is also OK to support AR/AO and have other higher social action or life priorities.
Can we agree on any of the above?
Doug Jones
PS. In my earlier post I talked about my belief, and it is just my belief, that what happened at GA was not a community emergency. I used the “fire alarm” analogy. Below might be a better analogy. Sorry for the length.
In medicine, there are Acute illnesses/injuries and Chronic illnesses/injuries/conditions. Acute items need immediate First Aid and/or Emergency Room treatment to control pain and avoid loss of function or death. Chronic items need to be treated and/or managed with ongoing activities/life style changes/daily medications, etc.
Untreated Chronic issues often result in Acute Incidents. For instance, Diabetics that don’t effectively control there condition on an ongoing basis can end up in the Emergency Room with very high (or low) blood sugar and many complications. I am a diabetic. Once diagnosed, I lost weight, adopted a low carb diet, started exercising 3 times a week and changed my life style to reduce stress. For the last 2 years, I have reduced my blood sugar level to within the normal range, without medication.
Some medical emergencies, for instance SARS (Sudden Acute Repertory Syndrome) become “Community (or Global) Emergencies”. SARS was first reported in Asia in February 2003. Over the next few months, the illness spread to more than two dozen countries in North America, South America, Europe, and Asia before the SARS global outbreak of 2003 was contained.
My main point is, Racism Exist as a Chronic Problem. What happened the last day of GA was seen by many as an Acute instance of racism. Many of those involved needed “First Aid and/or Emergency Room treatment” because they were hurt by it. I think youth leadership, members of the youth community, adult allies and Chaplains stepped up to provide this care.
I think it was a flair up of a chronic problem that needs more on-going attention.
I do not think it was a GA community emergency. I don’t know, however I get the feeling that it was not necessarily a youth community emergency. It involved 5 to 10 people directly and maybe 10 to 30 people could have come to their aid. Making it a youth community emergency affected the larger GA community. Lots of youth and ally energy was used. Could some of that energy have been better used addressing the underlying chronic problem?
Unfortunately, bad things are going on all the time. My over-stressed life style was unhealthy for me. I had to choose to fight fewer battles in a stressful way and take more time for my on health. As the GA community, we did a lot of good work, the youth were a valuable part of that work, some of it was quite stressful. We also need take care of our selves and have fun. The dance was part of the “balanced” diet of activities at GA.
My feelings on this issue are to some extent left over from Con Con 2004 that, IMHO, became very unbalanced. Having seen this happen twice with UU youth communities, I really, truly, lovingly want to support UU youth deal with these issues in as healthy way as possible.
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| Authored by: Jedi Liz On Sunday, July 10 2005 @ 12:26 AM PDT |
As someone learning the facts of what happened, I want to throw in here that, nametag issue aside, it sounds to me like the adults in the incident thought the youth were misbehaving and the youth thought they weren't. It seems like an example of racism, not happening out of hate, but out of socially learned fear, that tends to cause white people to see things that aren't there and to become defensive and protective and people end up getting hurt. The hurt comes about particularly from distrust becoming visible where trust was assumed.
Like most incidences of racism, expecially within Unitarian Universalism, I hope white people like myself, involved or not involved, can reflect on and learn from this incident, and not punish eachother for our flaws.
---
"Space isn't man's final frontier. Man's final frontier is the soul." ~Arrested Development[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: DJ DC On Sunday, July 10 2005 @ 12:47 AM PDT |
LIZ, I LOVE YOU!!!!! THANK YOU
standing back and knocking!!!!!!
---
"Come the rapture can I have your car?"--Bumper Sticker
My FUUSE journal-- "Inane Drivel and Other Niceties"[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Anonymous On Sunday, July 10 2005 @ 01:34 AM PDT |
I'd just like to write some questions / observations that I've noticed in this discussion.
In terms of the dance being called off, it seems like a fully logical response. It means that the racist acts that occured were to be taken seriously. How many people would have noticed that racist acts happened / what kind of response would there be to the racist acts / if the dance was held?
In terms of how the youth PoC reacted, I'd like to throw in there, an analogy. If a person is being attacked, and they scream and yell, it may or may not stop the attacker, but it sure will get attention. And, this isn't a bad thing, because it is a survival response which helps to protect the individual who is being attacked.
Now, sure, this wasn't a life or death situation, but as a Faith which says it wants to create a safe place for PoC, it thereby violates their safe place, and in some ways is a life death situation, if not physically, surely psychically and emotionally.
In terms of the PoC going to a PoC Identity group... while I understand the idea of only having UU people attend them, wouldn't it have been really neat if there were Non-UU people of color wanting to find out information and be a part of the PoC Identity group? Wow... we could have provided reasons for more PoC to become UUs, or at least have allies. (And, thinking this in Fort Worth, where if they were not UUs, they were probably locals who would have had to fight racism all the time - what insight for a whole community of GA attendees in many different ways!)
(By the way, this train of thought comes because I am trying to get people in one of my UU churches to start an A/O A/R group and invite non-UU's to be a part of it, Because we lack numbers of PoC in our congregations.)
Peace.
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| Authored by: Chalicechick On Sunday, July 10 2005 @ 06:01 AM PDT |
1. 1. I appreciate your not throwing around the term "racism." But that almost
everyone else here has should be clear enough from a quick reread of the
posts above. I also understand that you didn't think about this having an
impact on the minister's career, you just saw a chance to talk about our
culture of racism. Some old white people GA weekend weren't thinking about
victimization, they just saw a young man outside the hotel and needed their
bags carried in. Seems to be that not thinking is the root of a lot of these
issues.
2. I think the problem is solved best by not speeding. I'm a woman. I should
be allowed to wear sexy clothes when I go out at night, have a few drinks,
then walk home alone. Why the hell not? It's America. I have rights. You
and I know it doesn't work that way. You and I know that dressing slutty,
drinking and walking home alone is inviting to get raped. So I don't do it.
And frankly, if I'm going to work for women's rights, the right to dress sluttily
and walk home is pretty far down the list. The right to break the law/rules
and not face consequences for it is probably not the hill that civil rights
should die on either.
And speeding does kill people, FWIW. Absolutely white people should be
pulled for it. When I was younger and sped more, I did get pulled for it
several times. Life has gotten easier since I stopped.
3. I don't see ignoring it and making a big drama about it as our only options.
I think we can admit that the problem with the kids during the closing
ceremony was not racism so much as rudeness on both sides. Y'all know
what conventions are like. Nobody had slept fully in days and everyone was a
little bit cranky and quick to get up in each others' face about something
essentially pretty minor. The kids were trying to go someplace less boring
than the closing ceremony. The adults were just trying to do their jobs.
4. But seriously, if we teach our little brothers and sisters to cry "Racism!
Racism!" every time someone won't let them break the law, then when more
significant injustice occurs, nobody's going to listen. Nothing has been more
damaging to feminism than the idea that feminists are humorless bitches all
hot to yell at people who hold doors for them and pillory anyone who says
"mankind." If I were trying to derail civil rights in this country, the first thing I
would do is try to make everyone think that people seeking justice are really
just a bunch of whiners. Making a small incident that no one has proof had
to do with race into a big deal that gets so out of hand than anybody who
doesn't agree that it was all about race gets called racist themselves does that
nicely.
5. History has had a lot of figures who felt that we shouldn't let fairness to
individuals get in the way of achieving long-term societal goals. You
wouldn't have liked them. If you want to talk about not jumping to
conclusions about other people, not jumping to conclusions about the
minster needs to be part of that discussion.
CC
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| Authored by: CopperQueen On Sunday, July 10 2005 @ 08:13 AM PDT |
Thank you for your response, CC. I´m thinking that at this time we are not
seeing the same picture nor do we have the same interests. So I do not have
anything more to say to you about this incident.
-hafidha
---
Cada hoja soñaba un sueño diferente.
-Lorca
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| Authored by: stevecaldwell On Sunday, July 10 2005 @ 10:20 AM PDT |
I have said too much about this topic online and I've hurt others in the process.
I have posted an apology on my blog. If I have hurt anyone here on this message board or on my blog, I'm sorry.
I did not intend to hurt anyone.
If there's anything I can do to correct this, please contact me by email at stevecaldwell at bellsouth.net (replace the "at" with "@") so we can discuss this directly.
I've already said too much here and I will now step back from blogging for a while.
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| Authored by: FunkyEthan On Sunday, July 10 2005 @ 05:41 PM PDT |
I think one of the things which is causing difficulty in this conversation (and in UUism) is the impact and severe judgement the words "racism" and "racist" have on people, especially liberal/progressive people.
For instance, when someone asked me how GA went, and I mentioned (among many other opsitive things about GA) that there had been some incidents of racism, the person stopped, looked at me wide eyes, jaw agape. It was as if I had told her that a lynching took place on the plenary floor.
Many of us associate (and with good reason!) very terrible, horrible, brutal acts with racism. People who are anti-racism activists see racism in other, more subtle ways. That's why labeling an individual white person "racist" just isn't useful to me. Does the person murder black people? Refuse to hire Latinas? Tell insulting racial jokes? Clutch their purse tighter while walking through a black neighborhood? Live oblivious in a wealthy white suburb with good schools, miles away from the crumbling urban, mostly People-of-Color schools? Unaware of the difference between different kinds of East Asian ethnicities? Or are they just unaware that saying "Would you just shut up!" to another white person vs. saying that to a Person of Color have different implications and effects?
Different people who are doing those different things all need different kinds of approaches and counseling. Just labeling them "racist" doesn't really help me know how to deal with them.
Maybe the minister was motivated by subsconsious racism, or maybe she was just unaware that her words and actions were taking place across the backdrop of hundred of years of painful history, a lifetime of difficulty in someone's own faith tradition, and a few days of struggle in a specific conference community. Maybe she just didn't know what kind of ministry those youth needed at that moment, was upset, and made some poor choices. Maybe the youth were behaving suspiciously in ways besides "Worshipping While Black", and maybe they weren't.
[As an aside, the more different versions of the story I've heard (and I've heard a few) the more I'm convinced that this is not a clear-cut case of anything... and that there's plenty of good intention and plenty of culpability for everyone involved.]
I guess what I'm trying to say is, if the minister was influenced by unconscious racism, it doesn't make her an awful person who should be shunned from our community... but she might need to listen more carefully to what the experience was like for the youth involved, without being defensive. If the youth involved were behaving strangely or inappropriately, or weren't wearing nametags, or even if they inflamed the situation by reacting angrily to being accosted, that doesn't make the situation "their fault"... though they might need to hear and respect what the experience was like for the minister and ushers involved.
Since nobody on this message board knows all the "facts" of the situation, I'd recommend that we not appoint ourselves judge and jury, and leave that to the people involved and to denominational leaders. What we should be engaged in here is discussion our own feelings about things which have involved <i>us</i>, where we <i>do</i> know the whole story. Where I work, we call this "speaking from our own experience."
Examples I've already heard include CopperQueen describing her own experiences and feelings about being pulled over. Other folks have talked about being disappointed that the dance was cancelled. I could share that I am often afraid of finding myself in the position the minister was in (which is not an evaluation of her 'guilt' or 'innocence' in this situation.) It's not for us here to judge others' feelings or experience or to label it as genuine or not -- it's just for us to hear and digest other people's stories and integrate into the way we experience our own lives.
Thanks, all,
Ethan
---
Ethan Field
Your heart is an organ the size of your fist.
Keep Loving! Keep Fighting![ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Seinneann On Sunday, July 10 2005 @ 06:03 PM PDT |
Ethan,
THANK YOU!!!
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| Authored by: HaggisInDaEvenin On Sunday, July 10 2005 @ 08:18 PM PDT |
By jove... I think he's made one of the most intelligent posts in this thread! Blimey...
Thank you Ethan, for a calm and rational fresh voice on things. I was trying to figure out how to say "We are not fair arbiters of this situation.", but you got it out far better than I hoped to.
---
~Donald Wilson ~ http://www.donaldwilson.info ~ http://www.uuhosting.net
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| Authored by: FunkyEthan On Sunday, July 10 2005 @ 08:30 PM PDT |
| Well - I'd think that "We are not fair arbiters of this situation," is probably a much more succinct way of saying it than my typically wordy post! Thanks for that as well! ---
Ethan Field
Your heart is an organ the size of your fist.
Keep Loving! Keep Fighting! [ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Chalicechick On Monday, July 11 2005 @ 12:09 AM PDT |
FunkyEthan's answer sounds reasonable. I agree with a lot of it. But the
parts I don't agree with come down to this question:
<b>
If I am leading a group of teenagers, or teaching them in class (I sometimes
teach SAT prep) and a student of color is behaving badly, how can I discipline
them without having everyone think it is about race? </b>
Clearly getting yelled at is an issue. (As a white teenager, getting yelled at by
adults was just one of those things.) If it is not one of those things to y'all,
OK, but I need an alternative more likely to get the message across when
repeated requests for silence/better behavior have been ignored?
I know teenagers want to be treated as adults, but they frequently don't act
that way. (Even he more mature folks here have to have more impulsive
friends and know what I'm talking about.)
Pretend I'm in class with the least mature person you know. How do I keep
order without being a victimizer?
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| Authored by: Jedi Liz On Monday, July 11 2005 @ 05:02 AM PDT |
Ethan,
The only thing in your post that I'm not persuaded on is the idea that we can't learn from one another's mistakes. Aka: know the details and reflect on them. I agree that we ought not make judgements (see my most above), but I'm still on the fence when it comes to narrowing any discussion to only one's own experiences. Can't we reflect on what has happened to others, and take that where it goes?
---
"Space isn't man's final frontier. Man's final frontier is the soul." ~Arrested Development[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: FunkyEthan On Monday, July 11 2005 @ 07:01 PM PDT |
Hey Liz,
Good question -- I agree that it's important for us to learn from each others' experiences; that's one of the many reasons we come together in community!
Learning from each others' experiences is one thing; it's another thing to try to judge who was "good" and who was "guilty" in a situation where the people involved in the situation are not here for the conversation, and the people here for the conversation don't know a lot about the situation!
Add to that the fact that folks here in our community have deep personal emotional connections to the final "verdict" of such a conversation, which means you're just going to make people hurt and angry (on all sides) while stumbling down the road to a judgement this group isn't entitled to make. It's the kind of conversation where both White People and People of Color walk away angry thinking, "Here I am, getting beaten up again."
So if the youth and the minister and the ushers and the other folks involved were all on FUUSE, and were all a part of this message board, and all consented without pressure to discussing what happened, and their thoughts and feelings about it, so that others could learn from it, I'd say "Yay!" Since that's not happening, I say let's stick to our own experiences -- which are pretty darn rich themselves! :)
In the faith,
Ethan
---
Ethan Field
Your heart is an organ the size of your fist.
Keep Loving! Keep Fighting![ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: FunkyEthan On Monday, July 11 2005 @ 07:16 PM PDT |
ChaliceChick,
It's a tough situation you're describing, and the best widsom I can share is that situations like that don't happen in a vacuum. Meaning, is that your first day in the classroom? What's your history with the students? Are you recognized by the students who are People of Color as someone who will stick up for them? Do you crack down on racially charged comments in the classroom or do you just let them slide? If you're unfamiliar with their living situation, have you taken the time to learn about it? Have you been sympathetic to the needs and history they have that the white students might not have because they are not victims of racism in the same way that People of Color are?
Those and many other personal issues, together with centuries of slavery and oppression, and the students entire academic history are *all* in the room with you when you' deciding what to do. And yes, it puts you in an unfair situation - that is one of the ways that racism hurts us all. But please remember that it is not those students, nor their parents, nor the school board, nor the principal who are putting you in that hard position. It is racism itself which is being unfair to you, and you need to figure out a way to deal with it, just like those students have to figure out a way to deal with their life situation.
So I'd work on relationship building ahead of time, which makes that problem easier to stop before it starts. You are not going to "always be wrong" in a racialized conflict, but you need a proven track record before you get into difficult territory.
Thanks,
Ethan
---
Ethan Field
Your heart is an organ the size of your fist.
Keep Loving! Keep Fighting![ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: csext On Monday, July 11 2005 @ 08:24 PM PDT |
you rock CQ!
i always enjoy what you have to say, and usually agree too :)
thanks for voicing calmly what i might have said not so calmly.
---
smooches,
claire[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: BartFrost On Monday, July 11 2005 @ 09:36 PM PDT |
Personally, I think the minister has a whole lot more than JUST being called a racist. Let's see, she openly swore at youth...and by that I mean she chased a youth down and said "Say that to my fucking face" And don't say this didn't happen, I was in between the minister and the youth. So yeah, I don't think I would ever trust that minister to minister to me or any other youth. And I know everyone's going to be like "What brought this on?" The youth in question walked up to where the minister was trying to state her case, heard some of (IMO) the shit she was spouting, said "This is fucked up" and walked away. I was next to this youth. The minister chased the youth shouting "WHAT DID YOU SAY? SAY IT TO MY FUCKING FACE!".
So yeah, it's not JUST racism, how about straight up unprofessional conduct?[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Chalicechick On Monday, July 11 2005 @ 09:51 PM PDT |
(Meaning, is that your first day in the classroom? )
I've been teaching for about two years.
(What's your history with the students?)
I usually don't have a history. I teach them for about three months and then I
never see them again. Sometimes they email me to tell me how much
they've improved. :)
( Are you recognized by the students who are People of Color as someone
who will stick up for them? )
I would stick up for them if I had the chance, but issues of race rarely come
up in an SAT class. We mostly talk about math and vocabulary.
When they get loud or silly, there's not an obvious racial component to it.
They are just being teenagers. Unfortunately, my job is to teach them and I
can't do that if one or two kids are making a lot of noise.
And I'm not saying that the disruptive one is always a PoC. More often, it
isn't. But sometimes, it is.
(Do you crack down on racially charged comments in the classroom or do you
just let them slide?)
There has been one comment about nationality in the two years. It was a
crack on the Iraq war. There weren't any Arabs in the class, but I came down
on the kid anyway, making it clear that such comments weren't relevant and
were inappropriate besides. He apologized, said he hadn't meant it the way it
came out and we moved on.
But that was one class and the only time something like that has ever
happend. The kids come from different schools and mostly don't know each
other. But they do get loud. For my entire teaching career, I've been OK with
occaisionally speaking harshly to students if they just wouldn't stop being
disruptive and sometimes pulling them out in the hall for a private chat, no
matter what color they are. If I'm not supposed to do that with students of
color, I'm willing to go along with that, but I need an alternative.
In a perfect world, students would sense that I respect them, no matter their
color, and would respect me by not distracting each other. You've been to
high school, you know it is not a perfect world.
(( If you're unfamiliar with their living situation, have you taken the time to
learn about it?))
Again, in a perfect world, I'd know all about every student. But I have three
months to sometimes make up for some really shitty teaching, especially in
math. It would take a lot of time to get one of them to open up to me, to say
nothing of all of them. I need to spend that time on polynomials. Maybe it
would be ideal to have classes be an extra week so we could spend time
talking out racial issues. But I don't think much would come to light in that
time, and I don't have the option of extending class an extra week anyway.
((( Have you been sympathetic to the needs and history they have that the
white students might not have because they are not victims of racism in the
same way that People of Color are?)))
Umm... I take time out of my week to teach them algebra and reading
comprehension so they can take a test that is unfair, but that they need to
pass to give themselves better lives.
To be honest, when I'm in the classroom, I don't really think about people's
backgrounds or try to make guesses about what they've experienced. (And if I
did try, I'd probably be wrong. Half the POC in my neighborhood have upper
middle or upper class backgrounds, but all of the teenagers dress in the same
few categories as far as I can tell. I'm sure there are subtleties of teenage
fashion that I'm missing, but I'm not a fashion critic. A rich goth kid and a
poor goth kid look alike to me.) I think about how best to explain how to
solve a reading comprehension problem or they best way to solve an
equation, and how best I can explain that statistics show without a doubt that
the kids who improve most are the kids who do the most practicing.
Maybe a high school teacher who had the same kids all year would have more
of a chance to connect with them on a personal level. I just want to teach
them math and vocabulary because, whether we like it or not, doing well on
the SAT makes it that much easier to have a better life.
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| Authored by: Chalicechick On Monday, July 11 2005 @ 09:56 PM PDT |
Bartfrost--
No question that the swearing was unprofessional conduct. The minister has
something to answer for there.
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| Authored by: Obijuan On Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 10:54 AM PDT |
Let me make sure I'm understanding this. The youth in question walked up to a
conversation he/she wasn't a part of, told the parties they were "fucked up" and
then walked away?
Knowing how exhausted I was at that point in the week, I can't say I wouldn't
have had the same reaction as the minister in question. However, I would
certainly apologize once I'd regained my faculties. But, why is it on the minister
to apologize alone. The youth's behavior in this instance (at least the way it's
being described) hardly seems appropriate either.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: FunkyEthan On Tuesday, July 12 2005 @ 11:48 PM PDT |
Can I once again make a plea that nobody here has enough info to judge *anybody* involved in this situation, and that any attempts to do so will only result in hurting folks in this community. I know that many UUs feel entitled to make armchair judgements based on very little information (I'm one of them!) but these judgements have huge emotional consequences for some of the people who read this thread. Can people *please* limit this discussion to their own experiences, without judging who was wrong or right?
Please trust that multiple people have contacted me privately in support of what I'm asking here.
Pleading,
Ethan
---
Ethan Field - Your heart is an organ the size of your fist; Keep Loving! Keep Fighting![ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: djones42 On Wednesday, July 13 2005 @ 12:09 AM PDT |
Below is an email I received as a member of the CMwD YRUU adivisors list. It includes a response to the UUA BOT Open Letter from an Usher at GA. It is a much different perspective of the beginning of the 'incident' during the closing ceromony. This was a very complex incident.
Yours,
Doug Jones
From: Kimberlee Tomczak
To: DYSC-CMWD, Youth-advisors list, RE CMWD, YAPS
Cc:
Bcc:
Subject: [Cmdyruuadvisors] GA incident - more info
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:39:53 -0700 (PDT)
Hello All,
Last week I posted an e-mail from the Board of Trustees about an incident that happened at GA's closing ceremony. It has come to my attention that there is another side of the story. The e-mail below is from a public UU listserv and I am forwarding it to you so that you have this information first hand, rather than hearing stories about it.
blessings,
kimberlee
Here is another public version of the GA incident from one of the listserves. One detail in this account that I believe is incorrect - the minister was the "young woman" mentioned, not the man as the usher assumed.
It's working itself out, but taking its toll on all involved. I've learned that the youth mentioned is taking responsibility for his part.
I do hope we all learn something from this unfortunate event.
Andrea
----- Original Message ----- From: Jim or Esther Ford
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 8:47 PM
Subject: Incident at Closing Ceremony
MESSAGE FOR PAUL RICKTER:
Dear Mr. Rickter:
I read your open letter to those who attended GA this year with special
interest. You see, not only am I a person of color, but I was also privileged to usher for most of the large events.
I was one of the ushers at the Closing Ceremony, and therefore it was interesting to read about the incident that I witnessed first-hand. You stated:
We have been disturbed by reports of other unfortunate incidents during General Assembly within our own Unitarian Universalist family, in which some UU youth of color were made to feel that they were not welcome. There was an incident outside the hall during the closing ceremonies at the Fort Worth General Assembly. Based on the reports of witnesses, the incident involved several UU youth of color, a UU adult who questioned their right to be there, provoking an angry response from the youth, a UU minister who intervened in support of the adult, and another white youth who defended the youth of color and verbally attacked the minister, who responded in like fashion with similar inflammatory language.
For whatever it's worth, here is what initiated that event.
I was ushering in the balcony and was greeting and handing out programs at the far right entrance. You will remember that many people came in after the program began, since many had gone to get dinner before it started. It was
therefore not unusual that three young black persons walked in about 15 minutes after the program had begun. What was unusual is the manner in which they were dressed and their body language.
I have been a school teacher and school counselor for 25 years, so I know that, in the kid's vernacular, they were dressed in "gangsta'" fashion (low slung, oversized clothing, bandanas on head, wraparound sunglasses, even though it was evening, etc.). I must admit that my first thought (since they were not wearing their name cards) was that perhaps this might be local youth that might have
seen some of our protests during the week and came to check us out. I had not seen them at any of the other programs.
Instead of looking for a seat, they stood in the walkway separating the lower balcony from the upper balcony and watched the program for about 10 minutes, then they began walking toward the center of the balcony. I smiled and them and offered them a program. Only one of the young men stopped and reached for one, after which he took two steps to follow his friends and made a big show of throwing the program on the floor. Then they proceed toward the next entrance, where this same young man asked that usher (Brenda) for a program, and proceeded to do the same thing.
At this point, my husband Jim (also an usher upstairs) went over to them and asked them if there was a problem. I later found out that the youth replied, "What's it to you, Man?" The induction of the candidates was beginning, so Jim suggested that if they were not interested in watching the program, perhaps they should go out into the lobby so they would not disturb others. Although the three youth proceeded down the stairs to the lobby, another young man, (Brian Kuzma) came down from the upper balcony and proceeded to scold Jim for being a "Racist" and anti-youth.
Jim suggested they go discussed this in the lobby since it was disturbing the audience. They went down to the lobby, and at this point, the young man who had been disrupive came in again at my entrance (without his friends). Again,
he asked me for a program. Again, I smiled and said I hoped he would keep it this time. He mumbled something, took the program, pitched it to the floor, and proceeded toward the other usher.
At this point a woman who happened to be standing in the walkway came to me and said, "Those guys are obviously trouble-makers and need to leave." I told her that Jim had already called the head usher on his radio and the situation would be handled." As we then turned to the center entrance, however, the young man had gotten another program from Brenda, and was now tearing it up and throwing
the pieces down.
Mr. Rickter, I have worked with youth for 25 years, and I know when I am being "baited"-- so I knew that he was itching to be confronted, something I was not about to do. But the woman who saw all this walked up to the young man and asked him what his problem was. He replied, "Get out of my face, bitch."
Another man overheard this (I guess it was the minister you mentioned), and so we all followed the youth to the lobby where Brian proceeded to argue with everyone that we were acting "just like the Fort Worth police." The woman and
man kept trying to explain to him that it was the behavior of the young man (and not his race) that being called into question.
At this point, other young people that had been out in the lobby the whole time began screaming and crying that everyone was being unfair! Then, some of the youth sponsors, as well as people from the Planning Committee came on the scene, so I went back to my post where the ushers were being told to block people from going into the lobby until things were calm.
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Overall, I 'd had such a wonderful experience at GA the previous days that the whole incident was like a splash of cold water. I was especially sad to learn that the young man who incited this was "one of us." I couldn't understand why he would choose to be unruly and disrespectful and disrupt the closing ceremony.
I am told it was because he was harrassed during the week, but I cannot understand why he would feel that it gave him license to take it out on the whole group.
Believe me, having grown up as a person on color in Texas, I would be the last one to be an apologist for racist behavior. But this was not the case in this particular incident. The youth will need to understand that they, also, need to examine what I perceive as reverse racism, on their part.
It was an unfortuante incident all the way around. As you say, I hope we can all learn from it.
Esther Ford, Member
Live Oak U-U Church
Cedar Park, Texas
esther-ford@sbcglobal.net
Kimberlee Tomczak
Central MidWest District
Young Adult & Youth Advisor
Phone: 608-873-5361
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| Authored by: Chalicechick On Wednesday, July 13 2005 @ 09:37 AM PDT |
For what it's worth, I find the title of this thread a judgement and the general thrust of my argument has been that the judgement made there, that the problems were direct fruits of racism and that's the only explanation worth mentioning, is an oversimplification.
CC[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: readyforafall On Wednesday, July 20 2005 @ 10:26 AM PDT |
This is like that time, when you and I went to the WashU student gov. meeting and Joe was all like "I understand what your saying...But this is how it is sucka..."
I'm impressed[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: readyforafall On Thursday, July 21 2005 @ 11:17 AM PDT |
I would like to say that I am white, and I feel racism DAILY. I understand the effect of it, and I know what it means to be disappointed because of how you look. Just because you are a person of color does not mean you are the only persons being discriminated against because of your skin tone. And don't say that Whites can choose to or choose not to be in racist situations because if they could I WOULD. But I CANT, so in your attempts to be "inclusive" you have just shown to me that you do not THINK fully through situations. I don't know you, and you don't know me. However, I do know that you are attempting to say that Whites very very rarely feel racism and in the case that they do have the ability to shunt it. That's a lie. Anyone who disagrees with me has clearly NOT attended an inner-city public school. Or in my case, has not dated an Indian girl and been told time and time again that you're not allowed to be seen in public with her because you're white and Indians don't want their daughters to be seen with white men.
Please do not ASSUME that you know how ALL white people feel just because you know how you feel. And don't tell ME how my experience is because you THINK you know.
In trying to be the opposite, you have been offensive, but you will fail to realize this. You will try to tell me that "Oh, well, you don't feel it as strongly as people of color." And I will tell you "Bullshit." Because I choose not to constantly fight against what I feel is a wrong against me does NOT mean that it doesn't happen. Don't judge me or ANYONE, youth of color, white, anyone, until you've walked in their shoes.[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Supernathan On Thursday, July 21 2005 @ 12:35 PM PDT |
I am new to this community and I am not trying to judge anyone but I am having a real gut reaction to this discussion. If this is supposed to be a safe community I am decidedly not feeling it so far. This is important to talk about but I ask that we all remember what we agreed to.
We, the members of FUUSE.com, agree to...
...embrace the FUUSE community and the diversity of people and opinions that make it up;
...discuss issues in a supportive, non-judgmental, and constructive way;
...voice opinions in a manner that respects differing opinions;
...seek out the support we need from the appropriate sources;
...strive to make FUUSE a safe and welcoming place;
...be willing to listen.
Sorry to interrupt... carry on.
---
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Mohandas Karamchand "Mahatma" Gandhi[ Reply to This ]
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| Authored by: Ray Teurfs On Thursday, September 01 2005 @ 01:04 AM PDT |
David said,
"The important part to focus on is "Those who would have chosen."
People of Color CANNOT CHOOSE TO NOT deal with racism and
its effects on them. We're constantly surrounded by it and effected
by it, while White people have the luxury to choose when and
where and how to deal with racism-- sometimes if at all. So if given
the choice to deal with what happened at GA, many White people
would and some wouldn't; meanwhile the People of Color would
have no choice but to have it affect their experience. And the proof
of this is actually coming out on these messgae boards. The main
question from White people is "why couldn't we have the dance?";
the main questions from People of Color is "why did these events
happen to us?", "Why don't people understand that what
happened was racist?" and in general having to justify our pain."
David, my impression from this quote and other places in your post
is that you were speaking for all people of color, but, of course, no
one speaks for any group of people unless elected to do so, and
then not even then. Of course, people of color could have chosen
to go to the dance. To disallow that would have been to "prejudge"
their motives.
If this were not a relatively public discussion, I would say I have
little to no right to say anything: I was not there. But, so far, as much
as I can 100% believe that an act or acts or racism were
committed, I believe they were individual acts, and, as someone
eluded to above, we will always be learning all the time. I get the
feeling that there is a need to indict an organization, as to make
guilty, as if it is institutionalized. If that is the case, as it may be,
then I wish someone would make that case clearly and say where
it can be read. What I have read so far are the understandably hurt
feelings of some. But, I am not seeing a point made. I guess
someone will eventually investigate and make some conclusion. I
suppose I will wait for that. Okay, enough rambling. Good luck, ye
Voice of the Revolution.
Ray Teurfs,
California[ Reply to This ]
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